your memoir is called I am speaking my mind. How did you find your voice?
Well, it took some effort because it was the first time I was writing a book. I found it very useful to be able to immediately write down my thoughts when I thought of something worth putting in a book. As a politician, I wrote speeches, memoranda and articles but never any fiction with this kind of dialogue. Since I’m not a professional writer, I also got some help from Deirdre Nuttall. She was, in a way, my co-writer. After each chapter, she would come over, talk to me, then rewrite it with me to make it more readable, and then I would rewrite it. It was quite a slow process but it worked really well for me and ultimately for the book.
How did you find your voice as a gay man of Irish and Indian heritage, possibly facing homophobia and racism as you grew up in Europe?
That’s a really good question. Thanks for asking me this. This is a bit of a complex topic so I don’t have a straight answer for you but allow me to think about it.
I’m not expecting a straight answer from a gay politician. Go ahead, tell me.
(laughing) You’re so funny! I too don’t have any complicated answer. I grew up as a person of color in Ireland, so I realized very early on that I was different. And being gay added another dimension to it. These two things made me stand out from most of the boys and young men I grew up around. I’m not really sure how I found my voice because I’m very comfortable with who I am right now, being a person of Irish complexion and Indian heritage, and being a gay man, but that wasn’t the case when I was maybe 25 or 30 years old. I need to think about this.
You were 36 and health minister when you found the courage to come out publicly as Ireland was preparing for a referendum to legalize gay marriage. Mental health is still a major challenge for LGBTQ people in India, Ireland and around the world. What would you say to give strength to people struggling with suicidal thoughts?
First, I want to acknowledge that everyone’s experience is different, and it may depend on cultural context. Some people have very supportive families. Others are rejected by their families. I was lucky to come out at a time when my country had become much more liberal. I had support from family and friends. My political party was also supportive. This would not have happened 20 years ago in Ireland or some other parts of the world.
I know a lot of people who have had coming out experiences that were very different from mine but I don’t know a single person who regrets coming out. If I could give any encouragement or advice to people who are struggling, it would be this: Coming out can be a good or bad experience or worse. It may be better or worse than you imagine but I don’t know anyone who regrets that they went ahead and did it. When people are pushed to a bad place in terms of mental health, it is often a result of not being able to open up to themselves and others.
What kind of books did you grow up reading? Many gay people tell in a book how they encountered someone like them for the first time. Was it the same for you?
Not necessary! But, as a young person, fantasy was the genre I enjoyed most. For me, that meant a lot of Roald Dahl’s books and, of course, JRR Tolkien’s. Lord of the Rings Trilogy. I also have fond memories of reading Salman Rushdie’s book midnight’s children When I was in India for two months. When you study for a medical degree in Ireland, as I did, you are encouraged to gain some experience abroad. Many years ago, I spent a summer at KEM Hospital in Bombay (now Mumbai). There was something special about reading Rushdie in that city. Looking back, I don’t think I met any gay or lesbian writers growing up.
Ireland has produced five Booker Prize winners, and around 40 Irish writers have been included in the shortlist and longlist. Why does the government prioritize support for writers through scholarships, mentorship and professional development funds?
This is part of Ireland’s soft power policy. We are a small country that wants to become a cultural superpower. For many people in India, China and Latin America, their first encounter with Ireland is through the culture. Support for art, literature, music, dance and cinema is a good investment for diplomatic reasons but it is also good for people’s lives and their soul.
What are you reading at the moment?
I have more time to read now and I love it. I still read mainly non-fiction, but I’m keen to change that by reading more novels this year. The last book I read was by Colm McCann apeirogon. It is about two fathers, one Israeli and the other Palestinian. Both lose their daughters in the conflict, and their grief brings them together. This is so beautifully written! Before reading this, I didn’t know that the title referred to a shape that is a polygon with infinite sides. Of course, this is one way of looking at the conflict. What I’m looking forward to reading next is a book called For and against a united ireland. It is written by Fintan O’Toole and Sam McBride.
During your session with Georgina Goodwin at the Jaipur Literature Festival, you said that Irish people feel a strong sense of solidarity with Palestinians. What is the reason behind this? How do you see your role in advocating for justice and liberation?
I think it is much easier to be an activist than to be a politician. And, in some ways, I can now be more of an activist than a politician because a politician often has to balance competing interests. Ireland has some very good, strong principles around democracy, human rights and the rule of law, but we also have strong economic ties with the United States, which we don’t want to jeopardize. Furthermore, arguments are not always won by those who shout the loudest. What I have tried to do within the EU is to bring member states closer to our position, which is support for Palestine. But many workers did not understand that nothing would be achieved by rushing things or raising all imaginable demands at once. It was difficult to explain. This happens in queer activism too. Some believe that progress should happen in a gradual manner while others insist that our rights cannot be compromised at all.
Queer activists have been speaking out and writing about how Israel uses its stellar record on gay rights to silence criticism of its human rights violations in Palestine. What are your thoughts on this ‘pinkwashing’?
I think it’s important to acknowledge that, when it comes to LGBT rights, Israel is far more progressive than most countries in the world. When there are UN resolutions supporting LGBT rights, Israel always votes in favor of them and aligns itself with European countries. Arab and Muslim countries usually vote the other way. Tel Aviv Pride is one of the largest pride parades in the world. But Israel’s stellar record on LGBT rights should never be an excuse for war crimes. By the way, Israel does not recognize marriage equality because marriage is governed by Jewish religious law. Same-sex couples in Israel have to leave the country to get married in Cyprus, which is a pity. A few years ago, an Israeli government minister compared sexual relations between gay people to incest. In many ways, Israel is regressing in terms of democracy, rule of law, and human rights.
You have been vocal about your intention to help advance relations between Ireland and India. In India, gay couples do not have the legal right to marry. What lessons can India learn from the Irish experience on marriage equality?
I never go to another country and tell them what they should do. This is a decision for India to take. I would like to tell the Indian people that in the 1990s itself, Ireland decriminalized homosexuality and legalized divorce. Only in the last decade have we allowed marriage equality and abortion. As these changes were taking place, there were people who said that families would be destroyed. Some have changed their minds, some have not. But the truth is that no one has been harmed. Our society has progressed. The right has been won. There are two forms of marriage in Ireland. One of these takes place in a church or mosque or synagogue, and is a private religious affair. And then there is civil marriage, which is legally recognized by the state. It can happen between any two people, including same-sex couples.
What would you say to people who are trying to figure out where you stand politically, whether you’re left or right or somewhere in the center?
I would say to them: Don’t think too much about it because that linear view of politics is too simplistic. I consider political ideology to be three-dimensional. You have people who are very liberal on social questions but may be very conservative on economic policy, and that’s OK. I think it’s important to stick to what you believe in and what’s good for your country, and not get trapped in a framework that doesn’t fully explain the complexity of human thought.
Chintan Girish Modi is a writer, journalist, teacher, artist, literary critic and tree lover.
